The truth about wealth nobody tells you.

Transcript

Auto-generated from the episode and lightly edited. Timestamps mark the start of each section; a new line marks a change of speaker.

00:00

I wouldn't say I'm addicted to work, but I'm addicted to making progress. Deal with it. It's just too much right now. I'm like, "No, this is the time to deal with it right now. Let's get into it."

People be in the moment, be present. You know, all the things that I think everybody's working on and trying to do. Uh if someone doesn't have a safe hub, they will develop a strong shell. I mean, I really think that wealth, true wealth is the absence uh of economic pressure so you can focus on relationships. I bet you before a while ago you did a testimony for Andy and I was filming it. Uh, and I learned a little bit about you, but like honestly I know nothing about you aside from that testimonial video. I would love for you to kind of give summary of who you are, where

01:04

you're from, what you do, and why. Graduated from a very average college. Um, college wasn't really, you know, I didn't really, it was fun. I had my college experience but there was nothing you know I I got a normal job out of college in recruiting which gave me the foundation to understand recruiting. Then I went and worked for another I worked for Aerotch to start. They gave me a really good foundation but then I went to work for another small business and um and it was terrible. Like I it was like that led me and I'm glad I worked there. the the owners that ran this business um to me were I know pretty unethical according to me. And so that that got me to think like if I wanted to be a part of a business run a certain way then I could start that myself. So that kind of pushed me to start my own business in January of 2002. Started that business. Um we were it started out a little bit slow. Uh but we had a good run after that. I mean uh January 2002 was called Job Brokers. Um we ended up hiring over 50,000 people.

02:09

Um we grew about 100% every year over year until we were doing 50 million and um it was an incredible ride. Uh the things that I ran into though in the hiring world was um we did a lot of contract to hire um which sounds great and there is a need for that in the world and I'm not bad talking you know contract to hire companies but for me it was unfulfilling because I would go in these big companies and they you know loved what we did but what I saw is like we just like threw a bunch of W2s in our wake in order to just get work done and I always wanted to solve the problem you know above that problem and So, uh, so after making quite a bit of money, it was a big decision. I mean, I could continue to like make money doing that, but I just kind of knew it was just didn't feel aligned to who I wanted to be. So, I eventually really got um interested in just doing leadership search because I wanted to solve that problem, you know, help the leaders above the problems that I was, you know, typically solving. And that's when we started to look into a model. Brian

03:11

Moore and I, you know, started to take a deeper look um into how we could change the way hiring is done and align people on soft skills and hard skills or purpose and values and um we started a leadership search firm. Um but I will say and this will kind of go into our conversation that I'm sure we'll have. The starting a leadership search firm was just to cover for me to start something that could help me become a better leader. Um it really was. I mean, when I look back on it that way, I'm like, the biggest payoff for me is, yeah, we've hired a lot of leaders, but like in hiring a lot of leaders, you're going after like the most acute pain most people have. I mean, Andy and I, you know, the a lot of clients he has or clients of ours and vice versa because at some point you're successful entrepreneur pushing the envelope and it's a it's a who problem. It's not a how problem. So, you got to find the right who. Well, one thing within that because

you shot for some of my clients and the clients that we've worked for back and forth. I want to ask you this question because you came from middle class and then you had exponential growth as time

04:13

went on. What did you early on think that wealth or money was going to do for you and give you and what did you discover later on in life that it can never truly give you?

Man, that's such a good question. Um, I grew up Catholic and I'm giving you the background because this gives the way. And I have I had such a good upbringing. My parents were so good. Um, and I and I lived I grew up in Glendale, but like and it was middle class, you know, maybe a little below middle class, but I didn't even know that. I didn't care. Like we had, you know, everything we needed. Our parents were so good that I never questioned anything. In fact, where I live now, um, you know, was was a neighborhood back when I lived in Glendale. I didn't even know that neighborhood existed, you know. I mean, there was this there were some nice houses and I didn't even care.

Um, so I thought um, honestly, when I first started business, I thought my purpose was still to coach sports because once I was playing it, naturally the coaches are like, "Hey, do you want

05:15

to coach?" I still have a relationship with a lot of coaches. And so, I thought I was going to go into business. This is a long way to answer this, but I'll get to it. Uh, I thought my purpose was to make as much money as I can to free me up to do what I love, which is coach. And then along the way, I met a guy through long process, but um through kind of like a trying to figure out my purpose. And the guy's like long process, but we figured out that he's like, "Well, why can't you help others like just in life? Why does it have to be in sports and why can't it be in business?" And so from that point on, you know, my purpose is to help others better succeed in life, which is, you know, through business. So I thought that was my path. Um, I think what I've learned, and I think this is more recently, I mean, I really think that wealth, true wealth is the absence uh of economic pressure so you can focus on relationships. And I've become crystal clear on that. And now it's shifted like how I think about stuff. Now I, you know, when you when you have success in business, you're making

06:17

money, you don't mind that the fact that like the pressure is on you and you're embracing that. To me, there's no badge honor in that anymore at all. Like to me, it's about like how big how how good are your systems and your people so you can focus on your relationships. And I still like I'm making progress. Um, but so that my definition of wealth before was have a bunch of money in my bank account. My definition now would be um the absence of economic pressure in order to spend time on relationships. So right now I'm trying to straddle both. So I'm kind of trying to shift over to that side.

That is a massive shift because what I observe and what I see is the things that you just described around relationships and human connection are the first things that people sacrifice on their pursuit of becoming wealthy. that it is their relationship with their kids, their spouse, and their friendships that often go on the back burner for this endless pursuit to have more. And I I sometimes wonder if leaders do this to themselves because

07:19

they need they need the next new goal. So if you hit X amount of num uh x amount of money in your head, you need it to be the next big goal. So you reach for more and then you reach for more and then you reach for more. but never that place of true fulfillment. And if it's that pursuit of more um without having a healthy balance of what matters most in life around human connection, it can get really messy and and out of control. Yeah. I mean, I'm I would say like I still struggle with it quite a bit. I mean, it still to this day, I mean, I right now I kind of feel more in alignment, but I always felt like and I think there's a lot of leaders that feel like this actually. Um, I don't know how many actually talk about it, but I kind of was in this world where if business was going good, then I could weather like maybe my relationship with my wife or my kids or something, you know what I mean? And it felt like I was always in this like tug-of-war where I had to choose. And um, you know, it's just the older you get, you know, that's not the case. It's

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just an excuse. Um, you know, so, uh, I still kind of like cling to that sometimes when things aren't going good. You kind of want to double down on, you know, just driving revenue in work or whatever it might be or making a ton of progress. So, I think that's always going to be a struggle. Um that's why that new definition of wealth of like because that's people do that because there's economic pressure and they don't want economic pressure and then also the pressure of a relationship not being bad and the pressures of everything else. So yeah, it's um it's an interesting like problem I think most leaders deal with. And you know I I think the um I wouldn't say I'm addicted to work but I'm addicted to making progress which is you know we're now I'm kind of like dressing it up. I think um but the the the issue about the work thing is is you can most successful people have an addiction to work and they sacrifice relationships. You if you called anyone out I think like they would you they

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would feel it. Um and and the problem with it is is the people that get addicted to work um they don't they uh it's it's not like you know getting addicted to alcohol. you drank like three bottles of liquor last night. Like you're addicted to work and everything looks great around you and you have all these gifts, praise, admiration.

And so it's a

you get out of that kind of addiction.

You get to feel a certain way. You get to

be a certain way. People see you a certain way in society and it feels really good.

Yeah. I mean I think one thing that I've had blessing in my life and uh you know I I'm faith is important to me. Um, I have been very lucky to have uh the situation I have with my wife. You know, I'm remarried. I've been together with my wife for 12 years. We've we're coming up on our 10 year wedding anniversary. Um, but she made a lot of money before I met her. And that changes everything cuz I have a lot of peers, you know, in YPO and a lot of friends. And I'm um maybe I should go find somebody else like me.

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Cuz when somebody's like that, they don't really care uh as much about, you know, when when you're when you don't come from that and you're solely relying on this person to continue to bring in income. Now, she wants you to make money. You know, she wants me to be happy and successful, but we're not going to starve anytime soon. And she wasn't even, you know, on her own before she had met me. changes the dynamics a little bit and it highlights um what's most important and her you know kind of um her in my eyes I used to think it was lack of awareness now I think it's like she had extreme awareness she knew what was important and so that's ch it's it's helped me I guess adjust more to that like don't use work as an excuse and having to do all these things to sacrifice relationships and family Um, so I've almost been blessed with that situation. Um, so that it's been that that that whole setup's been interesting. It just it stands out a lot to me because when I hear other people in YPO, especially talk, you know, about

11:32

their their challenges, they're just much different. I'm kind of like, it's a thing. Uh, you know, it's it's it's f I enjoy the dynamics being a little bit different. Um, so it's been a learning lesson. So I'm I've been super fortunate in that way. Now, I'm curious. Uh, for me, I I wouldn't say that I'm I mean, I think in some ways I'm addicted to work. Uh, I think I'm more so addicted to seeking and finding or achieving purpose and sometimes I can get that in work. So, where do you think is like where do you draw the line there? Because like I also find a lot of purpose in like being a father uh to my kids, being a husband to my wife. Uh, and I find a lot of purpose in my job, too. Where do you think it where do you think the balance is or the cut off is is like you're fulfilling purpose um and meaning to you're probably overworking yourself and becoming too stressed.

I mean, this is a I love this

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conversation. Um, I mean, I've been an entrepreneur since 2002. Um, I love the fact that I don't have to decide that and I don't, you know, I've just become wiser and I try not to make excuses. I love getting into the zone. In fact, I will openly admit like this past quarter has been incredible work. It's been a rocket ship. We're coming into Christmas. I love Christmas and I'm like ready to shut it down, but we have so much momentum that like I I kind of didn't know how to shut it down. Like I mean, so it wasn't that I was addicted to it, but we're, you know, I like making progress. Um, so I don't think there are lines, you know what I mean? Like I think, you know, in a perfect world, I've even learned um I I know some people have a different theory on this, but I really like working with people that I'm friends with. You know, to me, like that's been like a capstone of like the right direction in life is like I get to make a living and so do other people by doing, you know, what we love to do with

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people that we would just hang out with anyway, but we like figure out a way where it works. Um, so,

and when it doesn't work, you know, when it doesn't work, and that's fine, too.

Yeah. But then you get to gravitate towards like for me I have my tribe very tightly defined on who I need in my life in order to become who I'm built to be. And over the last 5 years I've really worked to kind of weed out people that I have given so much to but don't have the capacity to give back to me. And I think that's really important as we as we think about working with friends or we think about living our purpose is knowing your purpose which to me is just your aim in life. You the direction of where you go and the energy that you use in that direction. That's purpose. Where am I headed and why does it matter? But what's equally important around that conversation is who's going to go on that journey with me? Obviously I want my wife. I want my kids. I want my close friends. But there are certain people along my journey who will detract me from my purpose and those who will

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inspire my purpose. And I spent the last five years doing really deep work inside of myself and working with with other leaders like yourself and others to really think thoughtfully, not just about what they can give, but what they need in relationship. And I think that's one of the things we often forget about the most. But if we're going to fulfill our purpose, it's going to take a tribe, a very curated tribe around us who believes in us and and creates opportunity for us to become who we're built to be and complete our mission in life that we're we're built to do. Now how so in my world in the film industry uh people are overly obsessed with community and I feel like sometimes what they think is community is more like networking which I think are very two very different things. But I'd love to kind of hear what your guys' definition is is between like what is a tribe versus a community because there's also like a church community which can feel like a tribe. um there's like a community in your neighborhood where

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it's just like you live in a culde-sac and that's like your little community. Um for me, I'm I'm very much aligned with you where I'm not the biggest fan of like really big communities because I feel like it kind of leads to shallow relationships or it leads to um uh distractions or

transactional nature of yeah or

what can I get from you? What can you get from me? like like I and like I said more like networking and I'm very much I like my small group and like one thing I think about is uh you know for me like looking up to somebody like Christopher Nolan you know or Steven Spielberg like do you think they're in a Facebook group commenting on posts that people are talking about like no they're not you know like they have their group of people that's probably pretty small and they're not going to networking events they're not going to these you know film community builders or whatever they probably have their their tribe or whatever, but I'd love to kind of hear from you guys what what is the difference, you know, and like what do you feel is the most impactful for you

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and it very well could be a big large group of people and there's nothing wrong with that. You know, I I've had to do work to define and I did this this last year. I had defined eight key categories of relationships in my life from covenant companions to chosen family to inherited family to champions and cheerleaders to acquaintances. And I have eight categories. And I went through that list and I assessed where do I feel the most full, where does it feel the most robust, and where do I feel the most empty aligned with my purpose. If I'm going to accomplish my purpose, which is to help leaders and those I love pursue a sense of wholeness in their life, if I'm going to accomplish that in my life and in my family, where do all these categories line up? And there was one category that was a major deficit. And I think it's by nature of me spending my entire life thinking about what other people need from me and making sure that I'm supporting them and giving them what they need and making them achieve their dreams and accomplish their dreams. And I started to realize over the last year the category that was most missing was the cheerleaders and champions, which

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was those people in my life who are there for me to help me believe that more is possible inside of myself. And it really made me think about getting around other people who actually believe in my purpose and my mission and who are there to help me advance in my cause. Now, that was hard for me to do because I'm such a giver. I'm so focused when I'm with people on what can I do for you? What do you need? How can I support you? But I had to do some deeper emotional work to realize that it's okay for me to ask for what I need. It's okay for me to ask for help. And oftentimes when I do with people that I've poured into and I love, they want to help me. And I didn't know that. I was shocked this last year when I started asking for help. People were very excited to help me and come in and say, "I'd love to make an opportunity for you. I'd love to make an intro for you." and I forget that that's what I need sometimes in order to get to where I'm headed. So to me, I have these eight categories that I've defined and I saw a glaring issue and that's really been my goal over the last 12 to 24 months is to enhance that that sphere of relationships. And I'd

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love to hear for you, you know, what's changed in the nature of your relationships and like what Jay asked, how do you define community versus tight tribe?

Yeah, actually I'd love to get those categories from you.

Yeah, that that's a genius. It doesn't surprise me you've come up with that. Um, well, a couple things because I don't want to forget this. There's the thing that I get into in leadership search and about be wanting to become a better leader. It's like in some ways I kind of always feel like a little bit of a hypocrite because I'm always very aware of like, you know, some shortfalls that I may have on my leadership team or things going on. But like imagine him like I know the people he has to deal with. So he, you know, all the stuff that he's doing to work on himself. Anyway, that's a whole another topic, but I do want we can get into that because that I sense it in a different way, you know, and like, you know, purpose and values and holding people accountable to, you know, like like I I can't ethically preach that without, you know, doing it myself and sometimes I'm most critical of myself. And I think that goes to to what you're saying. I

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mean, at least that's what I'm picking up. It's like dude just I just open it up to like man imagine the work he has to do cuz he has to actually like

I have to maintain the rock for I have to be the rock for so many people regardless of how I feel and what's going on on the inside. I have to show up and a lot of leaders can relate to this to where they have to be the rock and strong for others. And I love doing that. The thing that I feel proud about that on my deathbed that I could that I can die knowing that I did this was I was the same person in my work as I am in my family as I am in my friendships. That I am not a different person. I might put on a little bit of a different hat, might be a little bit more focused, might ask a couple more questions, but who I am at my home, who I am in my marriage, who I am in my friendships, and who I am at work, I am the same person. And to me, that's a great indicator that I'm maintaining a sense of integration on the inside and I'm not having to prove myself to this crew and then to this crew and fragmented. And that's something that I've had to work

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so hard at doing. But that I think at the end of my life, that's going to be something I feel really proud about that when my kids think about their dad, they're not going to go, "Oh, you know, he was this kind of dad and then he went out and he was this amazing leader for others." And I'm like, "No, it's the same. I want to be the same and I work so hard to be the same. I think that's what most people are ultimately trying to accomplish. You know what I mean? That have like worked their way up the wrong and seen some success. Uh the community part I think the one thing that I have doubled down on I started to pick up on this a while ago is uh for me as soon as somebody's pressuring me to spend more time making me feel guilty because I haven't reached out it's usually like I don't know if I need that person in my life as much. You know what I mean? I mean, if it's done with love and like they really mean well, but everybody kind of knows the difference between like if you're always worried if you see that person like, "Oh, shoot. Now I have to like, you know, it's going to be a big to-do." So, anybody that gives makes me feel guilty. Um, you

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know, and you obviously you're not like that. Uh, and nobody that if I don't hear from you, I just ask you if you're still breathing. That's usually my go-to for people I don't hear back from. I'm like, "Hey, I just want to make sure you're not dead. Is everything okay?" I make it kind of more jovial where it's like, "Hey, I know you're there. you told me to ride your ass on this, so I will. Yeah. And and they're usually okay with it. They get distracted. So,

totally. Um I think in the community thing, I think the fun part for me has been uh creating a lot of friends and again not having any lines like being able to work with friends and you know, if I want there's some friends I have I don't even know what they do. I've known them for like summer friends in particular. I was thinking about this the other day and usually they're like very successful people. It's because somebody asked me, I ran into a guy that I that lives up by me in the summer and he's like, "Hey, do you know so and so?" I'm like, "Yeah." And he and he was like mentioning what he does for work. I'm like, "I don't even know what he does." And he was kind of like laughing. He was like a manager like a private equity group that everybody knows and like he's super famous. I'm like, "No, I just know

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him as the guy that like, you know, works out in the gym during the summer at 7 a.m." Um, but that's been fun in my opinion about the community. It's just been able to like not have to draw the lines. You know, there's some people like if they know what you do and they, you know, want to work with you, they like bring you in. If not, you don't have to. Um, I've learned a lot from my wife because I social, I'm like I'm socializing and connecting people is like my G, you know. Yeah,

like one time she was talking about um I love my wife. We were thinking about moving actually and we went actually we went and looked at a house in Nashville. This is like two years ago. Um so we go to Nashville and we this place called Trouidor. It's absolutely amazing. It's a discovery property and u in my mind I'm like she's like do you think we should move? And I'm like in my mind I'm like going to a new place not knowing anybody and once I was there and like meeting all these new people would be so energizing to me. My wife's socialize a little bit different you know she's like

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more of an introvert. Um, so she's kind of helped balance me out. Like I've learned to, you know, just kind of chill and do more laid-back stuff with the family and be okay with that because I think I was wired before where like if I wasn't socializing all the time,

it's almost like my batteries were dying, you know? So now I've got this like balance where I get to socialize with people. Some I work with, some I don't. Doesn't matter. Um, it's fun when the fact that I do because now I get to like spend time with a friend and also, you know, do work at the same time. And then I kind of feel like that's one thing that I've I've gotten a lot more balanced and and when I don't do that, I'm happy, you know, kind of laying low, focusing with the family, you know, being one with nature or whatever it is. So, a lot more balance in, you know, kind of slowing down, which uh when I think about everything going on in in the world, and I know we're going to get into this topic around AI, I think that's the thing that keeps coming back to me around purpose. Um, you know, I shared this earlier before

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we started recording. I think what I've kind of re come to, which I'm like, "Wow, I know this, but it's like hitting me so hard now, is um I know what my purpose is. I know everybody's pursuing their purpose, but I think unless you're good with yourself, meaning like unless you're totally fine, you know, spending time with yourself, then the purpose thing

like yourself.

Yeah. If you don't like yourself, you can pursue purposes forever, but at some point you're going to run into the problem of not liking yourself.

Which seems like a comical statement that, you know, you ask someone, "Do you like yourself?" And they're like, "That's a weird question." But when people sit with that question, you know, one of the exercises I do through coaching is I have two chairs in my office and I'll have someone be talking about themsel as a leader and their gifts and how strong they are and struggles they're going through. And then I'll have them switch chairs and I'll have them sit in the part of themsel that they feel most ashamed of. The part that

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feels lonely, the part that feels shy, the part that feels insecure, the part that's struggling in marriage. And I'll have them just feel what it's like to be in that part. And I'll ask them, I'll have them turn to the other chair and I'll ask them, "Does that guy over there like you?" And they'll typically go, "No." And I'm like, "Does he or she ever let you come out in life and talk to people or, you know, live life?" and they're like, "No, they keep me locked up. They keep me trapped and they don't let people see that I'm struggling." And you start to realize that there's this disconnect between what people show and what they feel on the inside. And it's miles apart. And the time that it interacts is through massive amounts of critique and criticism. So I think when you talk about this idea of like you know connection with ourel or liking oursel it is really being able to turn to the parts of ourel that we feel most ashamed of most embarrassed about whether I'm a 10-year-old kid whether it's a place of abuse whether it's an insecurity whether it's a broken marriage and look at that guy or that gal and say I love you I understand you here for you and I want

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to support you. If you can have that on the inside, that's what I define. For me, I define that as home, being at home is when those parts come together. And I love to hear for you guys when we use this idea of like something that's going to be valuable in the future with AI and all the change is going to actually be a connection with oursel like what does that mean for you too?

Well, you know, when you say like, do you like yourself? There's obviously I I think nobody's just like 100% loves themselves. I mean there are people I mean maybe Tony Robbins like we were talking about right

no they're not healthy like that it's falls on the narcissistic spectrum

you know I so it's funny like you are talking like a true extrovert over there and I'm very much an introvert uh but I'm like a hybrid and I think they actually just came out with a new term for like a hybrid introvert extrovert uh like I very much treasure and cherish alone time and I think that's part of my upbringing is because I had a lot of alone time. Um, and it's not necessarily because I like like myself, but it's

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more like I've accepted myself. And I think there's possibly a difference there. Like I accept my flaws and I'm willing to work on my flaws and I'm not I'm not shying away from my flaws like, "Oh, that doesn't exist or that's a problem I'm not going to face or I'm going to deal with that later." I'm also a person where it's funny, my wife is so different. My wife hates conflict and I love dealing with conflict, you know. So, if we're if we get in an argument, I'm like, "Let's deal with it. Let's let's work it out. Let's work it out." And she's like, "No, I don't want to deal with it. It's just too much right now." I'm like, "No, this is the time to deal with it right now. Let's get into it." And then I I find that I do that a lot with myself, too. So, when it comes to like, do I like myself? like, yeah, there's parts of myself I love and I like and and there's also parts of myself I'm like, man, this part of me sucks and I need to work on that. And I'm willing to put the work on that and then deal with the next part of myself that I don't like. But I constantly find that there's always something that I'm not stoked about with myself, but I'm

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willing to face it. So I think it's I don't think it's necessarily a matter of

there is a warmth there that I hear and a welcoming and an acceptance

as you define for you. I would love to hear this idea of critique and criticism because to me the shift that had to happen inside of myself was I had an internal core of critique criticism when I made mistakes that I was the hardest on myself harder than anyone else would be on me. And I thought that that's a way that I became a good leader I became a good dad. I became a good husband is I would just hammer myself when I'd make a mistake. And I actually realized that that made me feel more insecure. It made me feel less, you know, capable. And I had to shift from a internal core of critique and criticism to an internal core of compassion and curiosity. And as you talk about this relationship with yourself, you know, I'd love for you to address that part that I'm talking about around curiosity versus critique

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about your

I um the way you just describe it. I mean, I think I'm still a work in progress for sure. Like I'm I'm dealing with but I I'd say uh I I know this is going to kind of go deep, but I believe in God and I'm good with God. like I have that's you know and I like normally I don't word it like that when I think about it the the deepest root and for me like like I know I'm going to make mistakes I know I'm forgiven for those mistakes you know it doesn't give me an excuse to make them but I I feel like I'm I've kind of learned to be you know better and and but I still make progress through um uh through fear of not being successful or fear of not doing it Right. So, I think I'm still working from a place of like I fear and critiquing.

Um, and uh it's not not as bad as it used to be. Like when I first met you, I was like like wound up like everything was

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like coming at me. It was I was like like a pressure cooker. Now I'm like, "Okay, like I'm good." You know, I I feel like I ethically like I I don't know. I just I feel like I'm I'm good. I'm going to make mistakes. There's things that I could change, but there's nothing that makes me feel too bad about myself.

Has your relationship with God,

which is an, you know, an existential part of our life around faith or a higher power, something outside of oursel, and you've obviously seems like you've received love and forgiveness from that higher power, which you define as God. Has that helped you learn to love yourself better? If there's kind of a God that loves you and forgives you, does it give you an easier um kind of route to go, okay, maybe I can forgive myself?

Yeah, I mean that is a good way to describe it. 100%. Yeah, I think that I mean I think the other thing just uh just like a small nuance what I've been doing for the last you know kind of couple years is like praying more when I can't sleep. So like when people think

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like hey you're up at night like great like that just means I'm praying more. It's a different thing you know I know it sounds like kind of like you know kind of like a simple mechanism but it is and that's just kind of what I've been focusing on. So, it's almost like instead of, you know, I was up all night thinking about this thing. Well, when I'm up all at night, yeah, I might think about those things, but I also just turn it into like a more breathing and prayer and like, you know, more of a positive and like that small nuance has changed relationship with myself. I think the future so the future with AI and where everything's headed. I've done a lot of work around purpose professionally but personally over the last 5 to 10 years and I will sit with clients and leaders and if they don't have a concept of something outside of themsel some higher power some entity outside of themsel it is virtually impossible for them to find a sense of purpose in life. And I found that there are three fundamental questions that everybody has to ask in order to get to a place of purpose. And

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the first question is there a god or a higher power. If there's not then there is no order. There is it is all chaos. So the first question is is there a god or is there a higher power? Yes or no. Second question is what do you believe about this god or higher power? If you believe that it's chaotic, brutal, dismissive, why would you ever want to be close to that kind of higher power? It's like I don't want anything to do with that. But if you believe that it's good, loving, caring, and wants to be close to us, maybe that higher power has a plan for my life that is better than I could ever imagine. So then you give up control. And the third question is why was I made? Why was I created? Why am I here? Which is the like crux of the fundamental question around purpose and meaning? And in order to answer the question of why am I here and why was I created? We have to go to the one that created us. If we believe we're created, we have to go up up the chain of command and ask questions like, why am I here? Why was I created? What is my purpose? Things that can't be answered in here.

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But if we define oursel as the creator, that I'm in control of everything in my life, then we have to search for that here. And I just know that when people don't have a higher power like you're describing, they carry such an immense amount of pressure and burden in life because guess what? The bucks always stops with them. It's their fault. It's their problem. It's so much pressure. Everybody in the world, it's if my kids are struggling, it's on me to make them better. But when you have a higher power, you can go, there's somebody that's bigger, more powerful than me that has a plan for their life, and it's not my job. Man, I love that. Um,

those are those are the the fundamentals.

Yeah, those are fundamentals. I I it's hard for me to connect with somebody that doesn't believe that there is a higher power. It doesn't have to be the same religion as me,

right?

I don't know. Yeah, there it's there's something the thing about AI when I started to think about it, um I know it's going to kind of be out of left field, but I've started to just say, you know, I I the way I use AI, I mean, it

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it's so good at, you know, so many critical thinking points and data points and stuff like that. I've kind of started to believe that God is can be part of AI and how I'm interacting with AI. You know what I mean? I believe in, you know, I pray all the time for certain outcomes and certain things to happen. But I know this may sound weird because everybody's like, "No, it's a robot." Yeah, but it's connected to like so many things out of that. Why can't you believe that, you know, what's meant to come out of that? Um, and I'm not suggesting that it's religious tool, but I think my mindset around it, just in the way I use it, cuz I use it for more coaching myself and like giving it lots of information and helping me get better at all the things I want to get better at, which we can get into. That's that's been kind of my favorite use of it. And I think when people use it for certain ways like that, it's, you know, it's incredible. I mean, there's a lot of things where it can go sideways. But for me, I I've kind of got to this point where I believe that it's part of my universe. I don't think of it as like this machine. I don't say thank you and you know, you know, all these

it's going to come back you later.

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Yeah. I mean, I never said thank you to me.

I I do think that like you're just wasting like data when you do that. But I do think if you believe and you know you have faith like AI is now part of that whole inner world and inner inner workings and everything's connected and I don't I don't people don't talk about that very often.

I feel I think I would probably agree with some of those elements. Now would when you're talking whether it's chatbt or claude or grock or whatever does you know like does it know what you believe in and if so is it's more than likely cuz it's pulling from everything online it's probably more than likely pulling from your beliefs and pulling from references that are in line with your beliefs. So, like if you threw out a prompt and it was like, "Give me a non-bias that has nothing to do with God and coach me on this," it might give you a completely different response.

True. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've asked it for, you know, uh for Bible verses for like to be an officiate for my stepson asked me to

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officiate his wedding. So, and they're very Christian. So, yeah, it definitely knows like what I believe, you know, and it knows like what I like in the Bible. and knows like what stands out of me. So yeah, I will say so. Yeah, I mean that I'm I'm almost thinking that yes, that's all true, but I almost think of it like when like I to me I I have faith in like the right outcomes, you can use it and integrate it and have the right outcomes and you can do bad stuff with it too, but I think like there was, you know, that's a that's a kind of turned a corner for me is when I started to be like, well, this is like I can integrate this so in my life and it's if used correctly, it's part of my universe. Well, because in the end it's just it's meant as a tool and there's so many tools that we could all use that are, you know, could essentially be from God that is helping to fulfill the his plan for us. Like these cameras that I'm using right now, those are tools and I'm using them specifically for what I believe is part of my purpose that God's given me. And like why can't AI essentially be the same thing? I think a

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great question for myself to ask but also for listeners is when you see things in the world, cameras, trees, people, businesses, asking what does that about the true nature of the universe? What does that reveal? What does that tell me about truth, about purpose, about a higher power? Because you're describing I think I agree with you because there's two terms. There's there's this is more technical but there's special revelation and general revelation. So special revelation in different um higher powers or faiths is these like spiritual texts that we have. We have the Bible, we have the Quran, we have the Book of Mormon. These are special revelation. This is unique revelation to us to learn about a higher power. But then there's general revelation which is like the way that the world is built. The way humans are made. Maybe the way that you're built tells me a little bit of something about the higher power that I believe in. you know what does it tell me and just asking those questions that is what general revelation is so with AI and what we see there and what we learn

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about the universe or about human beings or about medicine continue to be curious about that and just ask man what does this tell me about myself what does this tell me about the nature of the universe and what kind of truth does this point me to I think that's a really great question to just be curious about and then be open and learn about those types of things

yeah uh so last summer I turned property and a lot of people were asking me uh you know hey tell me about what it's like now you're halfway through your life and all that kind of stuff whatever and you know I'd always just kind of brush off the answer like oh it's great whatever uh and then at night you know while praying while I couldn't sleep um I actually started to reflect on like okay well let me actually look at the last 40 years of my life and for me there wasn't like anything necess it's like that cheesy song of God bless the broken road that led me here, you know. Uh, but there's like a lot of truth to that. I had like I don't want to say regrets, but I I noticed there's like some time I wasted on things that

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were just meaningless, you know, whether it was work things that I couldn't remember that like I stressed out about. I knew I remembered the stress, but I couldn't remember what I was stressed about, you know? I remember, you know, missing something with my daughter or with my boys. Uh, but I don't remember what it was that I was doing. I just remember that I missed out on something. And it was kind of like this reframing of like, okay, what I need to get like make sure I'm I'm I'm really bringing in, you know, present our presence and really bring it. Yeah. Anyway, so it led to a similar thing that I I had asked, you know, a previous guest of like, you know, if you're walking down the street with your kindergarten yourself, what is your conversation? But it's more so if you could hop in a time machine and talk to yourself from when you were 20 or you you'd mentioned like you were really into sports and then you came to a realization of like eventually that doesn't really matter unless you're in professional sports. What would you tell yourself at you know that stage of life? Would you how would

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you comfort yourself? How would you talk to yourself? What would you say to let that version of yourself know like yeah you know what sports isn't everything but health is a big deal and you're that's going to become a big priority still or you're going to find passion in something else or you're going to find this sports led to this idea of leadership that you had no idea how much passion you would have into it you know like what would you say to you know 18year-old 20-year-old Max uh if you could hop into the time machine

um I mean I think it would be and I think I I had a good time when I was 18. Like I had a good life. Uh but I I now looking back and I'm still, you know, kind of learning this part. I would tell myself to slow down and you know make sure you see I don't know what it was when you were saying it but what I came to is like seeing a tree and actually noticing it and looking at the detail and you know living in your life versus like managing it or just waiting for the next

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thing to come. So, it' be more, you know, more being in the moment. Slow down. Um, all the stuff that, you know, I feel like I'm still learning. Life's teaching me. Like, I always ask my question like, "What's the lesson life's trying to teach me?" Every day it's teaching me to slow down. And every day it's teaching me that, um, you know, you get one of these. So, slow down, enjoy it. Um, you know, I think, uh, stress, and, you know, you learn this as you get older, stress, difficult things in life, I mean, that's what's going to define you. Um, there's nothing that can be put in your way. That's, you know, something that God, you know, doesn't think you can handle. So, you handle it. But I would kind of remind myself to slow down, pay attention to the people, pay attention, you know, especially people that, you know, that died and, you know, just pay attention to people, be in the moment, be present, you know, all the things that I think everybody's working on and trying to do um now. But I think it it would be around those lines just

44:08

to be paying attention closer in the moment and slowing down. uh you said a phrase that's interesting and I recently saw something about the phrase of like you know God doesn't give you anything you can't handle and you know I've I've lived by that phrase for a long time and then something kind of challenged that and I don't know how I feel about it. I'd love to hear what you you think about it. And it's like that's not necessarily true because if um that that's not necessarily true because if you know where's the reliance on God then like it you can be thrown in something that you can't handle that you need to rely on God to get you through it. So maybe there are things that God puts in front of you because the goal is not for you to be able to handle it, but for you to give up your pride and realize you need to rely on God to get you through it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Yeah, I mean um I think um God wants us to be humble, you know, beings. And I think every challenge is, you know, it it's meant to humble you a

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bit. Um, I think going spinning this all the way back to business, man. Uh, the one thing I notice about people that struggle the most in business, typically they're really successful and they get in this place where they get so successful that they think they are the ones that created all the success and they forget the place that kind of luck and timing and all that has to do. and then they start spiraling out of control because they can't control their environment. No matter how much money they have or how much success they've had, they now can't control it and now they're making it worse and they're spiraling. Um, so it goes back to being humble and you know what I mean? I think all those things are meant to, you know, kind of humble you. And you know, I I almost feel bad now just after kind of going through stuff and currently even uh I almost got all the way spun around to the point where like I feel bad for people that don't have to go through any challenges like they don't have any

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growth.

Um you know people whose lives are maybe too easy or they're not you know they're not challenging themselves too much. Um but yeah

and at the same time I have seen two different pathways from people. Pain is a catalyst. It can either take you towards bitterness and clo and and being hard or it can take you towards humility and softness. I always I always use this phrase if someone doesn't have a safe hub they will develop a strong shell. And what I mean by that is if you don't grow up in a safe environment where you can be authentically seen, known, supported, heard, and loved and there's abuse, there's trauma, there's chaos, there's divorce, there's substance use, there's just chaos, or there's too much involvement, you know, super inshed overbearing parents, a kid learns to create a false shell, a false identity around either performance or success or sports or money. They or comedy. They figure out what people want and they be

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become that thing and then as time goes on they don't know how to connect with the authentic part of themsel and it's because they came from a unsafe hub unsafe home they created a strong shell and it takes really intentional moments and times and I have to you know I've had these beautiful moments with clients where they have this really strong shell but we find a way through and then they break and they start to realize oh that's me I didn't know that was in there for so along and there's this massive amount of grief that happens where they're actually very sad in that moment cuz they realize like you're saying they spent the last 30 years of their life disconnected from their authentic self. And with that reality comes an immense amount of sadness and grief because you realize, man, I could have been more connected with my kids. I could have been more connected with my spouse. I could have lived life more peaceful or more full or just fulfilled. And I think when you hit that moment for listeners, um that's a choice to hit that moment. And when you hit that moment, um, you can either go to despair or you can go to a sense of gratitude

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and realize now I can make a change moving forward. I don't have to live the same way. And like you said, really be able to soak up life and and learn how to be open and learn how to be vulnerable. I had to go through that breaking point in my life, you know, 10, 15 years back and I've had to go through it multiple times ever since then to learn how to be present, let love in, give love. And that's a hard thing to do, but I think that's one of the most fundamental things to be able to learn how to do is break the strong shell. And I think pain is the hammer that breaks the shell. So let it I five years ago I made this shift um and it became one of my models that pain is a pathway to growth. It's on the jacket I gave you. It's on the little collar. And to me I had spent so much time fighting pain and being like I want to choose how long I want to be grieving. I want to choose how long I have to suffer. And instead of just seeing pain almost like a coach and mentor and then I give myself to it and I say what do you want to teach me? How

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do you want to make me better? How do you want to clean out something inside of me that needs to be cleaned out? I personify pain as a loving individual, coach, mentor, and I give myself to it as a way to transform me from the inside out. And that has changed my sense of peace. That changed my sense of control to give up to pain knowing that it is for my benefit, not there to ruin my life. It's a totally different mindset.

Yeah. Wow. No, that's uh I mean, all that's so true. like you know I I think and you do the same thing and if you listen to that Tony Robbins like I think he gets into this too.

Uh but especially when you choose pain routinely through like routines or habits. I mean that creates more opportunity, more growth, more confidence. um you know, keeping promises to yourself when they're painful. Like I mean, like this is a like a small thing,

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but uh I read a guy's book not too long ago, Craig Balanchin's name, and he was like hammered the the home that getting up early in the morning is like you're already going downhill. You've already accomplished something. You got up. And ever since I read that, I get up at 5:00 a.m. every day except, you know, if I'm choosing not to most of the time. And even that cuz it's not getting up at 5 a.m. sucks sometimes. But you know when you do it every day, you're already you have the confidence. You chose something that's not easy. You're choosing something that not everybody's choosing. And then you that's just like one small mechanism. But I like like the way you word pain. I don't think many people like see it that way. So for people, you've been one of the first ones that have been very direct about it like pain is, you know, the pathway to growth 100%. How could you ever refute that? Like I'd love to hear somebody come in and explain why that's not the case. We would quickly figure out that they are not in a good place.

Yeah. Well, Max, I want to thank you for your time. Uh we we have to end our podcast

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unfortunately.

Yeah. No, this has been great.

It's really great hearing your insights on everything. I know there's so much more that we want to talk about, but um I appreciate your time and uh thank you. Thanks, guys. Yeah.